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Discuss The End of Evangelion (Spoilers ahead) (Thread)

Discuss your thoughts of the End of Evangelion, feel free to talk, argue and share your thoughts.

Neon Genesis Evangelion was a masterpiece of an anime, but the masterpiece that was the story itself was destroyed by "The ultimate revelation." The world literally ended at the end of that movie, it left fans saying "WTF just happened!?" To this day, and the creators still defend the artistic meaning of the movie itself.

The absolute ending

Human instrumentality resulted in Rei/Lilith who released an Anti-AT field thus reducing every Liliam based life form (Humans) to primordial ooze aka LCL. Everybody on the earth was essentially "destroyed" and the human instrumentality project succeeded. The one given control of instrumentality was Shinji Ikari rather than Seele who planned instrumentality. After a long amount of internal monologues, talking to the "Others" who were also him, discussion and comfort from Kawrou Nagisa, Rei Ayanami, and Yui Ikari (Who maintained some sense of individuality because they held the souls of Lilith, Rei, and the latter being placed into the Soul of Eva 01) Decided that despite everything that happened, despite those who betrayed his happiness and despite the pain of loneliness he still experienced happiness and still has more opportunities to be happy. He released the Anti AT field and rejected instrumentality, he then reformed his body because he wanted to be happy, Asuka who wanted to maintain her sense of individuality above all decided she wanted to be alive again. So, all that remained were Shinji and Asuka, the rest of the Liliam based life forms could return to life at any time they wish. However, many of the souls were taken into space with Evangelion 01 who left earth in exile. "Farewell oka-san"

"One last Final I need you"

Not gonna bother with this, ill edit later.

What I think happened post Evangelions Ending.

At the start of the movie you see a world destroyed, the landscape is covered in water Shinji's eyes are covered by his hair and he gazes into the distance.

(I think he is allowing himself to feel the impact of what he has done)

Shinji became the new "Adam" aka the first human after the genesis.

Asuka will be the new "Eve" the first woman after the genesis.

(All Souls taken by eva 01 Scenario) : Eva01 aka Yui Ikari took every human soul from the planet earth to find a new home and find happiness once again, the Eva is forever, as long as the soul in it lives it will be eternal proof that humanity existed. Eva 01 took the souls of humanity to a new world and became the new "god", leaving Shinji and Asuka together.

(Not all souls taken by Eva 01 Scenario) : Eva01 took many souls from earth who would be better off not coming back (The members of Seele, Gendo Ikari, Hitler, etc.) and became god of a new world. The fate of those left behind is ultimately unknown, but my theory is they eventually revive themselves and later join the march to a new start.

somehow, I missed the eva 01 leaving Earth thing, so I'm not going to comment on that until I've probably seen the movie a few more times. the problem with that is that the adam/lilith combination was never meant to happen because the being it would have created (i'm assuming embodied by eva 01) would have been too godlike. I'm guessing that this would have been subverted by the absence of soul, which is pretty disturbing: the idea would be that a godlike being, deformed because it is without a soul, is being sent into exile. now I really need to rewatch.

it seems more appropriate to say that every "body" on earth was destroyed. the anti-at field released the barrier between souls and allowed everyone to become one. no one was actually destroyed, it was just the barrier between them. it's like a tray for ice cubes. if you take away the barriers between cubes and let the water run together, the water is stil there, it's just the individual separations being destroyed.

asuka was able to retain her physical form because her greatest desire was not to die, and especially not to die at shinji's hands. it would seem that instrumentality too closely aligned with what she considered dying, and this was why she retained individuality. I don't think it was necessarily a matter of her having a strong sense of identity.

also, my understanding was that Rei was the vessel for Lilith's soul, and Kaworu the vessel for Adam's in the same sense. thus they were present. yui was the soul in eva 01, and would have as much reason to be present as shinji, since third impact was created through the use of the eva and its pilot.

I think the shinji/asuka:adam/eve comparison is pretty accurate since Anno is reported to have said asuka's last line was meant to imply pregnancy. that would open the door for the argument that maybe this was an inversion of second impact, and a way for the reboot films to continue on in as events repeating themselves in a new world that is similar but not quite the same, because they're effectively post-third impact.

I don't think any souls could have been taken by unit01. I think the point was that all the souls were in the black moon, but then released in shinji's version of instrumentality.

what I don't understand is the 7 seeds of life thing. if the goal was for the first ancestral race to be reborn, why would they divide themselves between tree of knowledge and tree of life, when they must have originally held the qualities of one having eaten from both anyway? I guess that goes a little beyond EoE though.

Yui did appear to take some of the human souls, remember those green crosses that appear when humans or angels die? (In the angels case purple crosses?) Many of them rose from the ground and went into space with Eva 01.

Also, eva 01 attained god status because Eva 01 devoured swallowed Zeruels Angel core which pretty much makes it immortal.

the core of zeruel doesnt make it immortal, the important thing is just that in the core is an s²-engine which is pretty much an unlimited pwer source so yu dont need the huge cables and the 5 minutes power limit anymore.
i always thought of thsoe crosses as the explosion of those reactors at least with the angels...

right, you'd think that would mean that third impact should have been triggered immediately following the absorption of zeruel's core, unless 01 was stopped with the lance. the only issue would be the remaining angel, but that should be a nonissue since the angels' goal was ostensibly to cause third impact all along anyway. I guess it begs the question of what third impact truly is.

maybe the crosses represent the release of an AT field? or something to that effect. that would explain why they show up when the angels are destroyed, and why the only time they're shown as a result of a human death is when the anti-AT field nullifies and turns everyone to LCL during instrumentality.

for some reason, that makes me think that it's weird that kaworu should have been a separate angel, and yet still in possession of adam's soul. wouldn't that also mean that adam was only partially present for third impact in EoE? I think that would mean shinji's soul is used as a stand in for adam's, since the third impact was triggered by lilith + her soul (rei)+ embryonic adam + shinji + eva01 (vessel for yui's soul). but then it's hard how to figure out where yui fits in, since both a soul and a clone of her would be present, and it seems like the whole equation is missing a soul. if that even makes sense haha. I guess this is eva we're talking about. maybe that's why eva01 had to leave, and maybe this was all regardless of what actually happened in regards to instrumentality.

The way I interpret End of Evangelion is this. Rei is made from the remains of Yui to be a vessel for Lilith. (The fact that she is Yui is alluded to by Gendo's behavior and some statements Akagi makes about her resemblance.) Because Yui's soul is in both Eva 01 who is used for the instrumentality and inside of Rei, she chooses to give Shinji (her son) the right to choose if he accepts instrumentality. He decides that true joy can only be experienced with human interaction and rejects instrumentality.

Asuka helps him realize this fact, and in a twisted psychologically disfunctional way, they love each other. Shinji is motivated by her and she is the last person he sees before rejecting instrumentality, indicating that she is the deciding reason Shinji wants to live. Asuka realizes she loves him as well, which is why she says that she feels disgusting. This is why she also accepted to come back into existence with him.

SPOILER FOR 1.11 and 2.22 --------------

Now, something interesting to think about is this. In the rebuild series, the sea is now red, similar to how it was at the end of End of Eva. When Kaoru arrives, he uses the word again. However, at no point in the new series had he seen them. This indicates that Kaoru retained the knowledge of the old series.

What does this mean?

This is not a new telling of the same story. This is a sequel to the story. Either all of the souls were returned to normal without their memory, or the world has reset from Shinji and Asuka who acted as Adam and Eve. However, this would take so much time that I highly doubt it. The means by which we get from End of Eva to Rebuild is beyond me, but I am certain that rebuild is a sequel, not alternate dimension.

@VivoDePyre i like your ideas, there is just the thing with rei and yui that bothers me: i dotn think rei has any memory of yui's life, in fact i dotn think she has anything in common with yui except for her genetical code, as he rbehavior is extremely different from yui's, as well as her personality, as seen with her mean behaviour towards akagi's mother and other things... also, shinji seems to choose rei instead of asuka in the rebuild series, which could make the whole sea-thing pretty interesting: red is the trademark color of asuka, while blue is the trademark color for rei. in the original series where the sea is blue, shinji chooses asuka, who is represented through the opposite color of that normal blue sea; in rebuild he seems to choose rei, who has the opposite trademark color thatn the red sea in this... i think thats interesting.

With the Rei having memories thing, no she doesn't. However, you could make a case that Yui would be able to control something made from her old body. And the sea thing, you may be pushing the whole symbolism thing. The red sea, as I believe, is due to the final explosion in End of Eva. I suppose you could say that it's a funny coincidence, but nothing more.

well i just thought it was interesting. though i woudlnt see how yui could control something outside her new body, as her soul is in eva01 now and basically the soul and the personality are something very different, as it is said the identity is formed by your own feelings and the way people interact with you.. and the soul is like.. the every essential "you", but i think it doesnt carry over real memories or has a conscious without its body which would mean right now, yui recognizes herself not as a human but as an EVA, as we see when it goes berserk, almost an animal.. though it/she still recognizes itself as shinjis mother, probably because the director used this story to get over his own mothers death or so i heard and put that in to underline the strong bind between mother and son... as for the split between soul and conscious and body, the existence of three organizations, SEELE (german for "soul"representing the soul), Gehirn (german for "brain"representing the consciousness) and NERV (german for.. well, "nerve", representing the body that is under the control of the brain). the ranks of the organizations are also fitting to that, with the soul beeing immortal and therefore the highest, the brain/conscious beeing linked with the soul and the body,but cant function without either soul or body, and the brain controlling the body through.. nerves.
is what i came up with. dunno if its already been said somewhere or how accurate it is or if its maybe already been proved wrong though...

uhhhhh... There was not nearly enough punctuation for me to understand what you said. Allow to try to pick this apart again though. Let us remember that we can't prove any of this, only theorize. Even if Yui didn't choose Shinji, somebody did. That is the important part. Shinji is alive because he choose to be, and he was wanted to live his life with Asuka.

The fun of this has been taken out really by idle pandering...

@VivoDePyre uhm sorry, i guess i typed a little too fast xD

I've heard the blood stain on the moon cited as indication for the rebuild taking place in the same continuity as well. at the same time, though, I think someone else suggested there was a scene where it showed the moon being stained as a result of second impact in the rebuilds.

still, I think it's entirely reasonable to theorize that the rebuild movies may build off the previous events the way that the original series built off a mostly unseen first and second impact. given how little the "impacts" are explained, it could just all be cyclical and the show's third impact became the rebuild's first, or something to that effect. realistically, Lilith was supposed to be the seed of ALL life on Earth, so there wouldn't even be animals afterward. with a sea of LCL, this would pretty much mimic the make-up of earth before life, aside from the two humans. and then, in 2.22 they do make a point to say that the seas used to be blue before second impact.

of course, if individual people started to pop into existence from LCL, it's debatable what they would know/remember, and given that the world already had a severely diminished population due to post-second impact war, the population/planet would probably be more or less identical to just after second impact. there's actually a pair of craters referenced on the show, one of which is identified as being created by the destruction of an angel. but the other identical one wasn't explained, and given the information about the angels thusfar, it couldn't necessarily be easily explained by an angel. I'd say that you could make a strong point for things repeating again and again, a little different each time.

"uhhhhh... There was not nearly enough punctuation for me to understand what you said. Allow to try to pick this apart again though. Let us remember that we can't prove any of this, only theorize. Even if Yui didn't choose Shinji, somebody did. That is the important part. Shinji is alive because he choose to be, and he was wanted to live his life with Asuka.

The fun of this has been taken out really by idle pandering..."

Yui did not "choose" anybody, she left earth in exile and took the souls of many humans with her to find happiness elsewhere. "Humans can live on earth, but the eva is forever." Shinji chose to be alive because even if he knew he would be hurt again he wanted to experience happiness.

Asuka chose to reject instrumentality because she did not like the idea of being together with everybody else, she wanted to maintain her identity. "If I have to be one with you, id rather die!"

"the core of zeruel doesnt make it immortal, the important thing is just that in the core is an s²-engine which is pretty much an unlimited pwer source so yu dont need the huge cables and the 5 minutes power limit anymore.
i always thought of thsoe crosses as the explosion of those reactors at least with the angels..."

I suppose the word "Deity" describes Eva01 more productively, Eva01 was supposed to be used by Seele to trigger the third impact. So the beings who can cause impacts are what Seele view as "gods."

OMG. The real ending is in a movie? That's why it didnt make that much sense. -.-

k thnx bye

@ybz17 oh you didnt know? though i warn you, the movie brings more quesions than it answers.
@Mu actually, what makes you think eva 01 would ahev taken any souls at all? i dotn know where this was said, and i recently rewatched it. i always understand it liek that eva01 flew away on its own, and the line with "humans can live on earth, btu the eva is forever" means that the purpose of the eva beeing forever is to always remind of humanity, even when the last traces of real humanity are long since gone..
also i dotn think asuka actually did reject instrumality: shinjis face looks very traumatised when she awakes, diferent to what it was before when he talked with rei and kaworu avatar'Ss; he put up stakes as tombstoens and we see that mitsuzus cross tahts hanging on one of those is rusty, so i gess he was alone for a logn time and asuka was just the first one to "come back" from her LCL-state; she really died before, after all, so she must have been LCL-ed or she would just bedead by now.
sicne shinji chose to live with everyone else,i think he chose to let everyone be re-formed, emanign that eventually everyone will get their own bodies back, just seems like its taking very long for some reason. probably because of the feelings of the peopel themselves, liek that those beeign happy without their individuality need longer to form back their bodies....
anyways i think neither took eva01 any other souls besides yui's of course, nor did asuka actually reject instrumentaity, but she was just the first one to get her body back.
on aside note, there are theories that the orginal episodes 25 and 26, with the psychoanalisis of th echaracters, is happening in the eople's subconscious duing instrumentality/their state as a sea of LCL

What makes me believe some of humanity's souls were taken was the scene where Eva 01 was rising into space with the lance of Longinus with many other green crosses before eventually leaving space in exile.

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