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So what about abortion? (Thread)

I'm sorry, I'm being a bad girl =(, there were actually three threads about abortion last year, around July.
But Im from Argentina, and here, yesterday, the congressmen started discussing about the possibility of a law that would make the option of abortion avalable for every woman in the country, in public hospitals. With this law project there is also the idea that there should also be a psicologist assigned for the woman that is interested in performing abortion, to talk it off, and help her go trough the physical, psicological, and emotional trauma this means to the patient (though, it's still not in the law document).
Me, I celebrate this. And I also think there should be sexual education for everyone since secondary school, to help prevent this cases.
The fact is, abortion exist, its real. So we are not discussing wether it should be done or not, but about its possible legalization.
Thus, this thread isnt here to imply "Abortion is worng! those who perform it are going to hell!", or something alogn those lines. Even if this law doesnt see the light, abortion WILL be performed, illegally, under unhigienic circumstances if necessary.
So, legallization, thats what Im interested about.

Some links (for those of you who speak spanish; sorry, couldnt find a link in english):
♣The law project: http://www.abortolegal.com.ar/?p=600

Data:
♣ The number of clandestine abotions performed within a year in Argentina is about 400.000
♣ 80.000 women a year are accepted to public or private hospitals after going trough that, because it was badly done, or because of the unhigienic conditions it was done under.
♣ More than 30% of motherly deaths here are because of abortions performed like this.

So, what do you think? And, now that the debate is open in this part of the world too, I'd specially like to know what my fellow latin-americans think.

I hope we dont end up fighting, and that we can all exchange our opinions freely, demanding and showing respect.

Thanks!

P.D.: Im really sorry about my crappy english... u.u'

Oh boy here we go.

@Sushi and new things are gonna rise up, like waifu marriage and gay-waifu marriage in 2056 and 2087.

I think it depends on the society. An advancing society is indicated by it's tolerance and not its restrictions (which is saying that a society that tolerates murder is a really advanced society, resurrection anyone?). So, I think legalization matters little, it's how accepting Argentinians are to the idea of abortion that is important. In the end it's just a reality that people will do whatever it takes to get whatever they want.

For example, Singapore, gay people are illegal there but I don't see any gay couple being hanged or caned there despite the country being trigger happy on those stuff. It's just that Singaporeans are accepting of gay people but still frown upon the practice and that's why it's still on the books.

Yes what about it?

No but seriously. Abortion should be available for every woman. Everywhere.
Even though I could never go through with it myself it's the persons choice. One mistake should not be punished with a lifetime responsability.
Oh yeah, I'm a guy. I mean if my girlfriend got pregnant I could never talk her into doing an abortion. It would be her choise.

@Sushi xD, its just that I dont like it when people make too many threads about the same thing, but lolol, I guess I shouldnt have said that right from the beggining, taking the title :P
I totally agree with you.

@eterno Look, here, as everywhere, lots of people say "abortion = murder", but they make their teen daughters abort, paying pretty good to private doctors. So, I dont think "public tolerance" is the entire point.
Also, I want the global opinion, not just about Argentina.

@Noodle Yay for guys supprting abortion availability!

By the way, Argentina is a pretty open minded country... kinda... well, its pretty tolerant (cough cough). Just this year (or was it last year?), marriage between people of the same gander was approved by law. =)

Thanks for answering, guys.

@Sushi - There is a serious issue with making the analogy of gay marriage. With two people getting married, there is a mutual benefit from both parties and those opposed are those not involved. With Abortion, one party benefits and the other must take a significant burden. The mother must spend all her resources to bring a child into the world that she is not well equipped, either physically, emotionally, or monetarily. If not, the unborn child must be aborted, and life taken away (assuming you consider time in a non-linear fashion).

I could go on with my opinion, but let's see how this sits first.

100% pro-choice here, woman should have the choice to do what they want with their body, NOT the government or doctors. That's just bullshit, seriously.

I hope that this happens in your country! If this law happens in America, I will be so, so happy.

@To-all-you-people-saying-they-deserve-choice
This isn't a "I have the right to my own body", this is a personhood argument now. People aren't debating if a promiscuous woman should have control of their body. They are debating if it's alright to kill the fetus and if the fetus is protected under the constitution, if the fetus is a person.

@All-the-people-who-say-they-are-pro-life
Let's get one thing straight, you aren't pro-"life", you are pro-human-life.

Abortion is completely fine; It really pisses me off when people complain about it. People are always in different circumstances which they can't have or support a child and people get pissed off at them not knowing that.

One thing people SHOULD get mad at is; when they have the ability to raise the child with no financial issues what so ever BUT still want to get the abortion then that's wrong(or at least to most people.) But when dealing with this issue you can't really target out certain people so I believe that people who are against it is usually towards those people.

To be honest thou I'm completely fine with both situations.
People should stop bitching.

Determining person hood of a fetus is a difficult thing to do. To consider something sentient is an odd term, because it refers to awareness and have senses. The nueral crest/central nervous system forms in 2 weeks and starts to rapidly develop from there. At 3 weeks, the foundations of the forebrain, midbrain, and hindbrain are all ready. At 7 weeks, the brain has expended significantly and afferent nerves have spread to most major areas of the body. However, ~48% (+/- 0.5) abortions occur after 9 weeks of pregnancy. (Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/ib14.html)

At this point, you can consider the baby sentient and alive. Technically, an embryo has the traits of life after dividing a few times, maybe a day or two later. The standard of what is alive is difficult to establish, which makes abortion such a difficult topic. Are you killing a person, or interrupting the formation of one before it can happen? Should you consider life linear or non-linear (Including the person's potential future along with the present and past)

But my point goes back to "something negative will happen". If you don't consider a fetus alive, fine. However, a severe and definite action of abortion shouldn't ride on maybe and close enough. If a fetus is alive, then it's murder. As a general statement, we try not to murder people on a hunch.

Now since I am playing devil's advocate, I will go ahead and say I support legalization. You can't change a person's mind easily, and ignoring a problem never solves it. Rather than having woman getting abortions in some dirty alley, I'd rather it be performed by doctors in a safe environment. This isn't about morality, it's about safety.

bite me

That's in poor taste. :/
As for my opinion on this I think the thing that annoys me most is the trend of many idiots using abortion as some form of late contraception and not bothering to take the responsibility to use protection before sex.

i agree keri, abortion should be badon that baby could have find a cure for aids or other diseases and think about it if you was bortioned all the things you love now, you will missout on, just because you got bortioned :-P

It's just like murder, opr suicide: it's their problem if they want to kill the person or themselfs, not anyone else's, so it's their decision and the government/law/everyone else should shut the fuck up about it.
just anouther angle to think about it ^___^

Just an FYI, I didn't say I'm against it. I'm pretty much neutral on this subject. ~

Abortion is legal in Germany, and it's cool. Fanatical religious people can STFU. Sexual education is very important and should indeed be part of the curriculum (as it is in Germany). Usage of contraception utilities should be promoted. Seriously, guys, condoms are cheap enough for what they can save from.

@everyone Wow guys, thanks for the answers, this is getting really interesting.

@Ashkachan I hope so too, and my opinion is pretty much like yours. I mean, how awesome would it be if women'd stop being just baby-raising-machines, to start deciding about their motherhood?

@BboyNoblesse Completely right about the "pro-human-life". About the other part, I dont think ANYONE has the right to ORDER me to have the baby I dont want.

@VivoDePrye its not like you're stating your opinion about the fetus being alive, so I cant say anything about that. Good data, though. But yes. "This isnt about mortality, its about safety", you're right, thats what this law is all about.

@sonanoka I wont comment on that.

@Keri I think that, together with the despenalisation of abortion, there should be a "sexual education law" approbed as well, to start knowing about prevention when having sex since the first year of secondary school.

@Asgitation I cant agree with you. Its not like murder, not at all. But yeah, its their decision, so they should be able to choose.

@Gargron Actually, here you can have free condoms at any public hospital! What we need is to teach everyone what is it, how is it used, why is it so important.

@Matsu the sad thing is that the majority of youths in my country are very well educated regarding sex, yet they choose to ignore it and all responsibility.

@Keri Then, that means there's something wrong with the way things are being theached. (I do think the educational system is obsolet and useless, but that is another topic). What we need, is to make them reason about this kind of things (didn't want to use the word "reason", but I cant recall another word in english for that...)

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