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means or result? (Thread)

What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil, or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil? What is more important? The means or the result?

the only time i ever thought about this was in the situation, if someone was trying to kill me, would i kill them first.. in my thoughts i wouldn't do it, id probably let them kill me, but then in the moment, i dont know if itd be adrenaline of me defending myself to kill them.

I guess it just depends what the "unjust" means are.. your and my unjust, may be defined by different things

Result all the way. That's how I went through highschool (bribes, attempted murder, blackmails all the normal stuff) so I can't be a hypocrite.

Can't lie about it. Life's better when you're playing dirty.

Since this is a "Philosophy" thread, I will agree with Nietzsche. It's better to have never been born at all, but since i'm already here I might as well live dangerously.

@BboyNoblesse Finally, someone who understands me!
Too bad that most people don't get it and stay in their cubicles. I for one, would rather go through highschool the way I did instead of getting good grades. I mean, I was in a school that likes cutting people's fingers and put them on a cake and I got through it without scratches and why? Because I just happen to be friends with the gut-stabbing dude's friend since elementary school.
You see, life's not about safety, it's about how you can stretch the definition (puts grenade in your hand and takes the pin with me, smirks, and leaves the room)

@eterno I wouldn't necessarily agree with you. There is nothing wrong with getting good grades. In fact, I love learning, reading is the shit. I only have a problem with people who follow Aristotle and believe, "To live a long life, is to live a virtuous life". Life is about having as much fun as possible, whether that be living a "righteous" life or a "stretching the definition" life.

Id stay just and fight evil till i die.

@BBoyNoblesse But I did get good grades. I'm just saying that they weren't enough for me to actually go through highschool because I belittle the teachers on the side. I also started some 'troubles' that is juuuust enough to tick people off but not getting me expelled.

That said, I didn't do it blatantly. I was trying to have a normal school life but when things started falling apart, I stood up for myself and I ended up with so much power. In the end, I was always the most powerful guy in the school (all three of them) because I fought back.

Now that I'm in uni, I'm trying to live a normal school life but the whole taking over thing is starting to show it's symptoms. I'm already friends with the guy who's friends with the vital staff of the school. I just wish I wouldn't have to use this advantage.

@eterno i feel for you a normal life is great but it gets boring quickly with out things to make it more exciting.but its what ever

@SETTON18
I know, in fact I' did it again. Why the hell did I pick a hostel in the middle of the Red light district while I have the option of picking one in the city center for the same price? I just don't get myself sometime, I don't know Kung Fu, wimp across the board, but I'm always confident.

I mean I was like, OK, so this hostel is in the neighborhood that is familiar to me, close to all the conveniece I ever need, and is totally safe but wait, there's this other one, right in the middle of the ghetto part of town, ran by the same folk (Hosteling International), and I know nothing of the neighborhood. Then I was like, sounds like fun, I'll take it! It's not bad but I bet my parents would say WTF?

I simply believe I should do what I want, when I want. Regardless of the outcomes, because I always prefer to aim towards some good.

@eterno what are you talking about

@BBoyNoblesse That's similiar to my motto. Though I'm more boastful about it. Though in full it's "Whatever the fuck I want, Whenever the fuck I want, And However the fuck I want it to be done!"

So Yeah, I actually care about the outcome because most of the time, I want them to be interesting ;)

Can you take the guilt of becoming 'evil' to stop 'evil' or would you be overcome with regret of remaining 'just' and watching everything crumble?
I think everything is situational, though in many cases I'd say the end justifies the means.

In cases of someone going to kill you and you have to kill first: just do what you have to to survive. My opinions the same on all extreme situations.
Cannibalism? Why have two starve when one could live?

@Elegy I don't like people who say 'Hey, it's a special problem I'm having here so I carry guns' while advocating gun control. The same could be said too hypocritical 'good people' who abides the society's rule and would shout at crime news on TV that they wouldn't do such a thing.

It's always situational yes, but if you are what you said you are, you should stand by your creed. I for one believe that I am a bastard and would do whatever by any means. You, good citizens should stay 'good' unless you don't want to. It's okay to be fickle but not hypocritical!

Also, I don't believe in kill or be killed. I believe it's either to kill or not to kill. If my life's at risk, I decide on whether to kill or to die, the same thing but from a different perspective. If I wanted to die, then I die, if I want to live, then I live, if I have a third option, I decide on whether I want to take that option.

@eterno Oh? I'm Hypocritical? As far as I can tell I didn't say anything that contradicts itself.
My first paragraph was just adding in extra questions to chew on from the original statement if that confused you.

It's true a third option would be ideal as opposed to a death on either side, but when push comes to shove there's not always a way out.

@Elegy I was talking more of in general, not aimed at you directly but if you fall into the category then, yes.

Third option is always ideal? I just choose kill because it's easier.

@Eterno Oh I'm a hypocrite alright but not in that way. It's almost ironic. Regardless, the specifics you outlines are the kind of thing I look down on.

Situational. I never said it was always ideal, just 'overall' it would be most of the time. To take or make a third option... depending on what exactly it is they need to do to create this third option it could either be physically impossible or easier than either of their given options.
Even in kill or be killed, the third option is so very situational.
Are you picked out randomly by a stroke of "back luck" or will you be hunted down again? Is there a means to kill or will you need to bludgeon them to death or break their neck? There's so many different ways everything could play out.

@Elegy Of course! I always pick the most interesting option rather than the most practical though. I used to be idealistic but now, I mostly do things for shits and giggles. If I happen to change the world then great, if I don't then, well, is the world intereseting? No? Man, why is it that I have to do all the work?

So, taking a third option, is it going to be interesting? Yeah, sometimes but most of the time the third option is bail. I just make sure that it's going to be enjoyable.

@eterno Sometimes the third option is a lot less pathetic than bail; we're stuck on the question of kill or be killed... but isn't it as often that one of the two givens in other, or even the same situation is bail or do nothing?
Life is one situation after another. The options to one aren't present for others.

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